[Interview] Muslims Are My First Constituents And I Will Still Prefer Calling Chhatrapati Sambhaji Nagar As Aurangabad: AIMIM Aurangabad Candidate Imtiaz Jaleel

Syed Imtiaz Jalal, a former NDTV reporter and All India Majlis-E-Ittehadul Muslimeen’s (AIMIM) incumbent Member of Parliament (MP) for the Aurangabad Lok Sabha seat has been in the eye of storm ever since his foray into the politics.

Whether it is his opposition to the renaming of Aurangabad city to Chhatrapati Sambhaji Nagar or his alleged absence from the celebrations meant to commemorate Marathwada region’s liberation from Nizam rule, Jaleel has been party to several controversies during his previous stint as a Legislator and later as a Lok Sabha MP.

During the AIMIM leader’s parliamentary debut in 2019, Jaleel became one of the only two elected MPs from his party apart from its chief Asaduddin Owaisi who has represented the Hyderabad seat in Telangana four times in a row. Jaleel had then managed to wrest the Aurangabad seat from Shiv Sena’s four-time MP Chandrakant Khaire by a mere difference of 4,492 votes.

Back then, AIMIM was supported by the Prakash Ambedkar-led Vanchit Bahujan Aghadi (VBA) in a quadrangular fight between Jaleel, Shiv Sena’s Khaire, Congress’s Subhash Zambad and the influential independent candidate Harshwardhan Jadhav.

The latter, a former legislator from Kannad and a Maratha reservation activist, who polled 2,83,798 votes, is said to have precipitated the defeat of Sena’s Khaire.

Come 2024, the electoral fight over Aurangabad Lok Sabha seat has become even tougher with five major candidates in the fray.

Notably, after the Shiv Sena split in 2022, Aurangabad for the first time will witness a poll bout between Eknath Shinde-led Shiv Sena’s Sandipan Bhumre and Shiv Sena Uddhav Balasaheb Thackeray’s (UBT) Chandrakant Khaire who has been on a battle mode ever since he lost the seat in 2019. On the other hand, VBA has pulled out its support to AIMIM’s Jaleel by fielding a five time civic body corporator Afsar Khan as its candidate. Apart from this, the Maratha activist Harshwardhan Jadhav is also in the fray once again.

Located in the state’s Marathwada region, the Aurangabad Lok Sabha seat along with its six constituting state assembly segments is considered as the erstwhile undivided Shiv Sena’s next major outpost outside Konkan. While the Chhatrapati Sambhaji Nagar Municipal Corporation was in the undivided Sena's grip for 30 years until it's term ended in 2020, the constituency at present has three Legislator's from Shinde-led Shiv Sena, one with Shiv Sena UBT and two from the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP).

Barring an exception of Congress’s Ramkrishna Patil winning the seat in 1998, the Aurangabad Lok Sabha constituency was in the tight grip of the erstwhile undivided Shiv Sena for nearly three decades, only to lose it in 2019 to AIMIM’s Jaleel.

Local analysts say that there is a strong ‘guilt factor’ at play among the Hindu voters in the constituency. According to them, a large number of voters share the feeling that back in 2019, splitting of Hindu votes on caste lines with the sizeable Maratha votes having gone to the independent candidate Jadhav had led to the victory of a Muslim candidate like Jaleel. It is on this basis, they opine that AIMIM’s Jaleel might not be able to repeat his win this time.

However, the other prevailing narrative states that Jaleel can still manage to give a tough fight and if things work out in his favour, win again, considering the tricky social arithmetic of the constituency.

Although the exact figures for caste and religious affiliation of voters in the constituency are not available, a snapshot of the three urban state assembly segments from a total of six segments that make up the Aurangabad Lok Sabha seat, is sufficient to give an idea of the constituency’s socially mixed nature.

As per an aggregate of the three segments which collectively make up Chhatrapati Sambhaji Nagar city, Muslims count for 31 percent while neo-Buddhists count for 15 per cent of the the city's population. This is as per the figures from the 2011 census.

The sitting AIMIM MP Jaleel is acquiescent of this fact and has been campaigning daily from morning 9 till way past midnight since the last month.

Swarajya interviewed him a few days before the last day of campaigning on issues ranging from his stance on renaming of Aurangabad to Chhatrapati Sambhaji Nagar to the water supply issue that has persisted in the constituency for many years now.

The Aurangabad Lok Sabha seat will go for polls in the fourth phase on 13 May. Here is an edited version of the interview:

In your Lok Sabha debut in 2019, it is said that you had won due to massive splitting of votes and VBA parading its Dalit vote bank behind you. It was a quadrangular fight then. This time, with VBA parting ways, it seems to be a five-fold fight. How challenging is the upcoming election for you?

I don’t think it is challenging. In fact, I am more confident now in 2024 than I was in 2019.

Considering the work I have done and the kind of response I am getting from the voters, I am confident of winning from this seat once again. In terms of margin, by a conservative estimate, it will be a double of what I got in the past.

What do you think of your electoral opponents in the fray for Aurangabad Lok Sabha?

If you look at VBA’s Afsar Khan, the less said the better. He is a shady character who used to sell movie tickets on black.

Then there is Sandipan Bhumre from the Eknath Shinde-led Shiv Sena, who has an achievement of opening up a record number of liquor shops in his tenure as the Guardian Minister of the District in the name of his relatives and that of his friends. I don’t think him being a Maratha will be of any help to him. I believe people are rising above caste now and they seriously consider the background of the candidates.

When it comes to Uddhav Sena’s Khaire, despite having been a four time-MP, he failed in solving even basic issues like that of water supply and ensuring funding for pothole free roads. Lastly, there is Harshawardhan Jadhav. He has no chance either.

I wonder why either of both the Senas or the BJP couldn’t find one sensible, educated candidate to fight against me.

But considering the appeal of VBA among Dalits and that they have sizeable numbers here in the Aurangabad Lok Sabha seat, don’t you fear that splitting of Dalit votes can affect your winnability?

Who says Dalit votes are not with me? They are very much in my support. Last time Muslims and Dalits voted en-bloc in my favour apart from Hindu voters from a range of castes.

This time, a section of Dalit voters might vote for the VBA candidate but largely they will stand by me. Apart from this, even the Maratha voters are in my favour.

I supported the demand for Maratha reservation in the parliament and they appreciate this. I also spoke in favour of the Dhangar community’s demand to be moved from the Other Backward Class (OBC) to the Scheduled Tribe (ST) category. They too appreciated this gesture of mine.

Although the chances of the VBA candidate Afsar Khan’s winning seem slim, he has made some serious allegations against you. One among them is the allegation that you had blackmailed the now deceased Congress leader Rafeeq Zakaria’s family members for personal gains.

According to him and others from your constituency, you had threatened to file a case against Zakarias who control the Maulana Azad Educational Trust for allegedly selling land taken on lease by the trust from the Waqf Board. But when you were offered a prime-location residential property in the city by one of the family members, you decided to go quiet on it. Does this hold any weight?

It is absolutely baseless. Afsar Khan is a habitual liar. You can make it out even from his appearance. If he has any evidence, he should disclose it in the public domain.

One can sense that your focus on developmental issues also appeals to the Hindu voters in the prominently middle-class urban neighbourhoods in this city. This is despite you being a Muslim and the baggage that comes with being a part of AIMIM. Why are you not campaigning aggressively in such areas as well like you do in the prominently Dalit and Muslim segments?

I would love to campaign there like how my opponents Khaire from Uddhav Sena and Bhumre from Shinde led Shiv Sena do. However, the problem is, none of them come to the older parts of the city which a large number of Muslims and Dalits call home. Which is why I have to tour these areas extensively.

But this apart, I sincerely believe that even if I don’t go to the areas which you mentioned where my opponents campaign hard, the people there know that I am kaamacha maanus (i.e. one who gets work done).

This was evident from the response I got when we had organised a get-together for all major professionals from the constituency. Some present over there said that despite being hard core Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) supporters, considering my focus on the developmental issues, they will vote for me.

You see my i.e. Imtiaz Jaleel’s existence as an individual and my association with AIMIM are two different set of things. There are people who don’t like AIMIM but they like me. They are in large numbers and I am confident that they will vote for me.

If this is the case, ever thought of joining any other party?

I have got offers from all major parties, including the BJP. However, when it comes to joining other parties, there are too many restrictions on the party members, too many leaders controlling what can be said and what not to say. I am someone who doesn't like being bossed around. The journalist in me is still alive.

Fortunately, in AIMIM, our leader Asaduddin Owaisi is supportive and does not restrain anyone who wants to make a valid point in public. In fact, there have been times when after expressing my stance in public over some issue, I discovered that the party-line was contrary to my point of view. But even then none from the party attempted to muzzle my voice. Can you see this in the BJP or let us say in the Congress?

Even if we keep your association with a party like AIMIM aside, it has been consistently pointed out by your critics and opponents that you intentionally neither celebrate nor participate in the events held to commemorate the liberation of Marathwada from Hyderabad Nizam’s rule. Why do you choose to stay aloof from such events?

This is not true. I have been participating in the celebrations for the past few years.

Alright, but there have been instances even during your term here as a Legislator when you publicly said that you will not celebrate 'Marathwada Mukti-Sangram Diwas.' People say that Imitaz Jaleel has become more open to contrasting opinions and has stopped speaking against the Liberation Day in recent years because he knows he will need Hindu votes as well apart from his Muslim vote-bank.

See, this controversy started on the basis of a byte I had given a few years back to television news channels.

Then, I had simply said this- “Imtiaz Jaleel will not do something just because it is popular or someone is asking him to do. If I feel it from the heart, I will do what needs to be done. I know that I am a patriot and I will not do something to get it validated from someone else. Just because you say that I should go and participate in the celebrations, I will not go.”

So basically you are saying that it was misconstrued as you being against such celebrations. But, do you sympathise with the emotions of the people here associated with the liberation from Nizam’s rule? Because, historians from the left as well as the right have pointed out instances of bigotry, feudal tyranny and more importantly- several acts of violence committed by fundamentalists patronised by the Nizam i.e the Razakars against innocent people here.

So many things have happened in the past. If you start raising those issues now, there will be no end to the fights over it.

Just because something had happened nearly 75 years ago, I am not interested in debating over it now. I want to move forward, not be stuck with the past. What has happened is just a part of the history. Why should I as a Muslim be punished now and be questioned for something that happened in the Mughal rule or during the Nizam’s rule over this region? Why should I as a Muslim be put in dock at the present just because the rulers in the past were Muslims? Just because I don’t celebrate the liberation day in the manner my opponents do, should I be labelled as a Razakar?

What we are talking about here is something that happened several decades back. Can we change it now? Do we observe the day when Godhra riots happened in 2002? Do we observe the day when riots in Bhiwandi and Mumbai happened?

In fact, in a recent interview with Swarajya, VBA chief Prakash Ambedkar said that Imtiaz Jaleel is damaging himself especially when it comes to his stance on the renaming of Aurangabad to Chhatrapati Sambhaji Nagar. Why do you refer to this city and the district by its old name?

Why should I refer to this city by its new name? I was born when it was called Aurangabad. Just because the now deceased Balasaheb Thackeray of Shiv Sena came to this city and declared in 1988 that henceforth it should be called Chhatrapati Sambhaji Nagar, I will not do that.

More importantly, what is the historical connection between Aurangabad and Chhatrapati Sambhaji Maharaj? If they had reverted the name back to one of the major villages like Khadki which gradually became part of the city, one could have thought of considering it.

Since we are talking about this renaming business, has anyone ever asked BJP’s senior most leaders that why don’t they rename Aurangabad in Bihar to something else? More importantly, why don’t they rename Ahmedabad in Gujarat to something else? Ahmed bhai se mohabbat aur Aurangabad se aitraj, aisa kyu? (meaning, love for Ahmed Shah and disdain for the name Aurangabad, why is it so?)

But that might be because Ahmed Shah of the Gujarat Sultanate is not as polarising a figure as the Mughal emperor Aurangzeb who renamed this city as Aurangabad in the 17th century. And when it comes to Chhatrapati Sambhaji’s connection with the city and the district, the clan of Bhosales, to which he belonged, were originally chiefs of a village near the temple of Ghrushneshwar, which is here, in this district.

Alright, but the city was called Aurangabad when it came into being, it was not called Chhatrapati Sambhaji Nagar. The same applies to Ahmednagar which was recently renamed as Ahilya Nagar. Ahilyabai Holkar was born in a village in that district, but was the city called Ahilya Nagar when it came into being? The answer is no, it wasn’t.

The government renamed Victoria Terminus to Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj Terminus. Is Chhatrapati Shivaji in any way related to the Indo-Gothic style in which it has been built? If leaders of certain parties were so pained to see a building that reminded them of colonial rule, they should have pulled the building down and built it in the style in which Chhatrapati Shivaji and his successors had built several structures.

I firmly believe that these renaming exercises are basically meant to divert people’s attention from the real issues.

Have you heard the name of the US-based historian Audrey Truschke? She had written a book titled Aurangzeb: The Man and The Myth a few years back. In this she argued that Aurangzeb’s act of demolishing temples was a political strategy and that he didn’t bear any ill will against the Hindus. Do you agree with this line of thought?

No, I haven’t read the book. When it comes to the second part of your question, the problem is if I say anything about Aurangzeb or Tipu Sultan for that matter, it will immediately become a controversy. In fact, whenever I went to Aurangzeb’s tomb in Khuldabad a few kilometres from the city, I have never prostrated before it or touched my forehead against the tomb.

One of the pressing issues with the Aurangabad Lok Sabha Constituency and the city of Chhatrapati Sambhaji Nagar is that of water supply.

This is the only major city in the entire Marathwada region with three large industrial clusters in its vicinity. Water shortage and supply issues are hindering its growth. To alleviate this, the previous Mahayuti government had proposed to lay a network of new pipelines from the Jayakwadi reservoir to the city. The project remains stalled due to your opposition. Why?

The previous BJP-led Mahayuti government was proposing to entrust the task of laying water pipelines with a private company named Samantar. This company was owned by the BJP nominated Rajya Sabha MP Subhash Chandra and Shiv Sena’s sitting MP of this constituency then- Chandrakant Khaire- was also an indirect beneficiary. I opposed this because it was a clear case of politicians colluding with a private company for personal gains.

A simple task of laying water pipelines can also be entrusted to the state-government-run agency like Maharashtra Jeevan Pradhikaran, which came into being precisely to handle such projects. However, the established politicians here then wouldn’t have had enough opportunity to seek their cut from the project cost.

Moreover, getting the project executed through a private company would have meant the administration burdening the citizens with additional charges. The Uddhav Thackeray-led MVA government was no different.

The entire government machinery and the political class here is against me because I am hindering their corrupt practices.

Since you mention corruption, it is alleged that of all the projects sanctioned under your quota from the MPLADS Fund for the constituency, most of the work orders were issued to one Baba Constructions. Cadres from both the Senas say that the proprietors of the said company are close to you, which is why it got contracts. They say considering this, you have no right to call their candidates corrupt. How do you look at it?

It is my prerogative to get it done from anyone whom I choose. It is absolutely legal. Don’t they see other works of public interest which I have been instrumental in getting done?

The BJP leaders here wanted to build a memorial for the deceased BJP leader Gopinath Munde. I am the one who opposed the plan and instead proposed a hospital to be built in the place and suggested that it be named after Munde. It was accepted and today the state government is building a 400-bed hospital in that place where a memorial was supposed to come up.

Interestingly, there is unanimity among the cadres of both the Senas as well as the VBA here over your role in the Ram Navami riots last year.

On the occasion of Ram Navami, there were intense clashes between two large sections outside the Ram Temple in Kiradpura. An innocent person was killed and 13 police vehicles were burnt. You say in your rally speeches that you had gone inside the temple while the clashes were on to save the temple. Your opponents disagree and say that you had gone inside the temple complex to actually save yourself from a section of an angry mob which had become uncontrollable.

Which of the two versions is true?

If I had gone to the temple to save myself as they say, what were they doing? Where were they when I as an MP chose to risk my life, sat on a bike, and went in front of the angry mobs to pacify them? Why were they hiding in their homes?

Let us assume that I went inside the temple to save myself from the frenzy. There were a few policemen inside the temple with me. What will they say about the police men. Was I an idiot to risk my life to go there when stone pelting was in full swing, acts of arson were being reported from the localities around?

What according to you was the provocation for the riot?

Whatever it may have been. But the ultimate truth is this- the riots were state sponsored. There was a concerted effort to show that since the city has a sizeable Muslim presence and a Muslim MP, it is in trouble.

In fact, if I hadn’t gone to the temple then, the police men inside would have died. They had tears in their eyes and they said that I was like a god to them.

My question is- if 13 police vans were burnt there, where did the policemen go? Because inside the temple complex, there were only a handful of them. The civic administration here has spent more than Rs 100 crore on installing CCTV cameras across the city. What happened to the footage from these cameras?

You have met Maratha reservation activist Manoj Jarange- a controversial figure who has been demanding inclusion of a socio-politically dominant Maratha caste into the schedule of OBCs. What made you go there to his protest site in the neighbouring Jalna district?

Manoj Jarange, according to me, is an example of what a common man can accomplish if he is determined to make those in power listen to the people’s demand. This is the reason why I had gone to meet him.

This can be viewed from the other way around as well. It can be said that you had gone there to meet him not just to support their demand for reservation but also to be in the good books of Marathas who have more than 30 percent vote-share here in the Aurangabad Lok Sabha constituency.

No, my first constituents here are Muslims.

In fact, when the issue of reservation to Muslims was being debated in the Lok Sabha, I had made a statement directed toward the Prime Minister that making a demand for Muslim reservation to your government will be akin to breaking our heads against a wall. In fact, I said that their government letting the Muslims in this country breathe itself was a respite to the minorities.

Are you in favour of the demand for reservation to Muslims?

The High Courts are in favour of Muslim reservation. The Sachar Committee had recommended reservation to Muslims and several judges agreed with it. When it comes to my stance, I am in favour of reservation to Muslims in education.

Don’t you think there is a limit to which the state as an institution can keep giving reservation on caste and communal lines? Rather, shouldn’t there be policies which ensure upliftment of all who are deprived irrespective of their social identity?

I feel this is a controversial question. It has to be thought out by the experts.

But, this question apart, you will be surprised to know that when there was a group of organisations comprising students from forward castes protesting against reservation in the post-graduate medical courses, I had come out in their support. I believe that some thought has to be given to the cause of protecting those with merit. Ultimately, it is the merit that should matter in the longer run. Policy of reservation has to be considered on a case by case basis.

For instance, I as a Muslim don’t want reservation for my family. But if those in the lowest strata in my community are going to get benefitted, I will support their demand for reservation.

Similar to the Hindus, there is also a strong caste-class hierarchy among the Muslims. Those considered to be inferior by the dominant aristocratic Muslims i.e. the Pasmandas, are now getting conscious of their position among Muslims. Some Muslim leaders from the Congress I spoke to, denied this. What do you think of it?

Yes, this is very much a reality. There are Pasmanda Muslims as well amongst the larger Muslim community.

What is your opinion about the Ram Mandir which was recently inaugurated in Ayodhya?

We respect the judgement of the court. Nobody came out on the streets to protest against the judgement. We respect the judiciary.

But this is a constitutional duty i.e. to honour the ruling of the court. What is your personal opinion on the temple that stands there in Ayodhya now?

It doesn’t matter whether I like it or not. A temple has been built, it is a reality now. It came up after a judicial ruling, so my personal opinion doesn’t matter. None among the Muslims said that we don’t like it.

The Indian Muslims had a strong progressive left-wing set of intellectuals in the past. Now it seems that the orthodox elements have no opposition left.

A lot of things are going backwards in this country. But I don’t think orthodox elements are in charge of Indian Muslims.

Are you aware of the contribution of the social reformer Hamid Dalwai who campaigned against the practice of Triple Talaq and Special Laws for Muslims, advocated adoption of regional languages as the language of Islamic religious discourse and not Urdu? Ever came across any of his writings?

Yes, I have heard his name but haven’t come across his writings.

Whom do you think is your real fight with?

I don’t know exactly because the situation here is changing every day.

But one thing is sure, Imtiaz Jaleel will win once again and this is Modi's guarantee.